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Poker Players Alliance Forums » Ask Skallagrim

1. Mike Snow
   Member
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   I'm trying to determine if there is anything that would prevent a free bar poker league from being formed. Others are obviously doing it in TN. Naturally, there is no entry fee.

   I've seen others suggest that paying cash as opposed to prizes can be tricky in some states. Can you elaborate on why?

   Can "bonus chips" be awarded for providing proof of purchase of food/beverages that the bar sells? It's simply "if you patronize the establishment by purchasing at least $5, you will receive 2000 in bonus chips". It would be a single-level bonus, such that if a person spends $5 or $25, they'd still get 2000 in bonus chips.

   If there's an issue with "bonus chips" derived from economic benefit to the bar, would an "alternate form of entry" (SASE) remove that restriction?

   Posted 10 months ago #

2. Big Jim Slade v2.0
   Moderator
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   My thoughts are likely not worth the paper they are printed on, and there is no paper involved here.

   What makes free bar poker legal or not legal is that if poker itself is not outlawed for some reason, then the default law is normally gambling statutes. Gambling is a three prong test - a combination of Consideration, Chance, and Reward. "Free" bar poker removes the Consideration prong. Bonus Chips with a purchase may cloud the Consideration issue.

   As for Bonus chips with food, I wrote a haphazard piece on the subject; I am sure others will write a more excellent piece on the topic. See the forums topic Bar Poker with Food Purchase (The link will be good until a "glitch" causes a human to press the renumber topics key)

   Specifically, the "alternate form of entry" for bonus chips you suggest is allowed in some states by some agencies, and not allowed in some states. But the primary use test may be more relevant to you. My guess is that if you can't pass the primary use test, then you are not going to get far with it at all.

   In some states, under some laws, cash prizes are treated differently than non cash prizes. This is particularly true with charity games which are highly regulated. Some states have liquor laws that control what types of prizes and promotions are allowed. Either may limit cash prizes.

   Posted 10 months ago #

3. Skallagrim
   State Director & Moderator
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   Sorry for the delay here m1rs (there needs to be more hours in a day...), but BigJimSlade has given you good advice.

   A "free" bar poker league will not run afoul of gambling laws so long as it is truly free. That means the "extra chips for a PURCHASE" is indeed problematic.

   Some states tolerate such a practice, some states do not. I do not know the answer for Tennessee. I do know you will not find the answer in the state gambling statutes. Where you need to look is in the state's liquor code. You may even find (cause it is Tennessee after all) that the liquor code prohibits any "games of chance" in an establishment that serves alcohol.

   I would first simply ask the state liquor enforcement commission. This inquiry will be free and will at least give you a basic idea of what THEY consider legal or not. If you disagree with their assessment or have questions about it, please fell free to post again, or contact us directly through the main PPA website. If needed. we will help you find a lawyer in Tennessee to give definite answers to your questions.

   Tennessee is generally a very unfriendly state for gamers, at least on its books. But if there is any way we can help you advance this idea, we will. Let us know how it goes.

   Skallagrim

   Posted 10 months ago #

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