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1. Michael Giannola
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   I was looking into a couple of 'FREE BAR POKER' leagues around the country and was wondering about them:

   1)Are they legal?
   2)How can some give away monies to the nightly winners?
   3)Does the ABC have any rights to regulating these?
   4)Who regulates these if the ABC doesn't?

   I know some of them give away gift certificates to the venues they are held at, buy the winners into casino tournaments, or give away prizes but I've seen some give away monies and seats into the WSOP. HOW IS THIS LEGAL?!?!?!?!

   Posted 2 years ago #

2. Skallagrim
   State Director & Moderator
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   Deuce, the question you ask is a complex one where the answer varies state to state. The general rule is that if no is charged a fee to participate in the tournament, there is no "consideration" (one of the essential elements of "gambling") and so no gambling laws are being broken.

   That said, many states define "consideration" very loosely, some holding that merely increasing beer of food sales is consideration enough. In other states, liquor laws prevent these tournaments or require them to be run in a specific manner. In other states, "contest and promotion" laws apply and also limit what can be done.

   Thats the best answer I can give overall, everything else is specific to each individual state.

   Skallagrim

   Posted 2 years ago #

3. Michael Giannola
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   I understand that most states do differ on these issues as they can with most. The "FREE" tourneys I have seen & heard of lately are in California, Rhode Island, & Mass. They are "FREE" to the entrants, except for food & drink purchases at each bar/restaurant. The 'VENUES' pay a fee to the 'HOST' of the tourneys...whether it be per table/night/person. The 'HOSTS' then award winners of these tourneys prizes, gift certificates, casino buy-ins, and even cash EVERY NIGHT!

   I am mainly looking at California & Mass. right now. Does anyone know the laws in these states and if not any idea where I could find them?

   Thanks for all your help!

   Posted 2 years ago #

4. Joe Stempek
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   While I have not personally participated in events like this, I have heard of some bars and restuarants doing this in Florida as well.

   Posted 2 years ago #

5. David Lane
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   Here in Virginia, an outfit called Stars-n-Bars Poker series is running them in a large number of venues up and down the state (Maryland too, but I live in VA, so..).

   I know that to have a poker fundraiser a couple of months back we went all the way to the Commonwealth's attorney for a ruling on what we could and could not do and one of the things we could not do was give out prizes, yet these guys are. I guess the consideration clause covering food/alcohol is different that soliciting donations. We had the fund raiser, but the number of hoops we had to go through was almost painful.

   That being said, I might sit in on a game or two this month just to see what they are all about.

   Posted 2 years ago #

6. ben100647
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   I am the managing member of the Free Poker Experience a company that has filed suit against the State of New York to legalize Free Bar Poker. All papers filed by both sides can be found on our website,(http://www.thefreepokerexperience.com)

   Each state has its own rules and regulations but approximately 30 states use the "something of value" standard. If you risk something of value in a game of chance to win something of value that is gambling. New York defines something of value as playing for entertainment and/or playing in a game for free (more detailed information is on our website.)

   We will be appearing in the Supreme Court of New York, 60 Center Street, on April 1, 2009, to give oral arguments before the judge. Watch our website for the latest updates.

   Feel free to contact me for additional information at [email protected].

   C

   Posted 2 years ago #

7. Michael Giannola
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   Ok...lets get REAL specific here:

   - How can a FREE bar league award CASH prizes NIGHTLY to the top finishers in their nightly tournaments...not just points?

   I'm not talking about a $25 gift certificate to come back to the restaurant/bar...but cold hard CASH. Paying 4-8 spots with up to $500 for the winner on any given night. With the WINNERS buying nothing but some food & drink from the venue.

   How can these SPONSORS, or venues, give away prizes such as cruises, gift certificates, TVs, etc., is a good question as well but we'll deal with the MONEY aspect first!

   How? Legal? HELP???

   Posted 2 years ago #

8. Gary Reed
   State Director & Moderator
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   Having some experience in Colorado I can attest to the fact that "Free" poker tournaments are allowed as long as a list of things are addressed. You would have to go the the State Attorney General's web site and the Secretary of State's site to down load all of those requirements. Once you have met those, you could, and many do, run so called "free" tournaments in bars and other venues. Three things make poker illegal here. Risk, chance and reward. Risking something of value to enter; chance (even though you and I know poker is a game of skill) Colorado considers poker a game of chance; and reward, playing for something of value or for money. If you remove any one of those three things, poker is then legal. In this case the organizers of the games are removing the first one, Risk. You are risking nothing to enter therefore the tournament is legal. Hope that helps.
   Gary Reed
   Colorado State Directo

   Posted 2 years ago #

9. ben100647
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   The problem we have run into in Nw York is that the State liquor Authority (SLA)considers free Bar poker gambling and will suspend the owners license and issue fines at their discretion. They charge the owner of violating the States Alcohol & Beverage Code (ABC Laws) in front of an Administrative Law Board that they control. Many owners have been successful on appeal in front of a "real" Court. However, during the process they incur substantial costs and loss of revenue which is never recouped. As such, most bar owners shy away from the games in fear of the SLA.

   This is exactly why we have brought suit in New York State Supreme Court to get a declaratory ruling from the Court so that the SLA can not interpret the laws as they see fit and continue to harass bar owners.

   We will be appearing in the Supreme Court of New York, 60 Center Street, on April 1, 2009, at 11 AM to give oral arguments before the judge. Watch our website for the latest updates. (http://www.thefreepokerexperience.com)

   Feel free to contact me for additional information at [email protected].

   Posted 2 years ago #

10. Vin DiNunno
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    So let's take this "free bar poker" league to a different level. I see the Massachusetts locations that require you to get a buffet and that is all and are giving out prizes of $500 a night as has been mentioned by Deuce and still don't understand how they can do this. I am skeptical that there is no side action being done at these events. So what if this is done differently where similar to Spade Club and other online sites where you pay a daily, weekly, monthly, or yearly fee to become a member and then play all the poker you want for prizes. Doesn't something like this take away the risk as well and make it legal? They have different membership levels, but this would allow you to open a poker room and run in this manner I would think.

    Posted 2 years ago #

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