Poker Players Alliance ForumsPoker Is Not A Crime: Discuss The Fight

Poker Players Alliance Forums » Poker Players Alliance

31. mikern12
    Member

    Okay what I want everyone to do is look at these four hands from a tournament that I played on ub today. Look at my hold cards and tell me what is wrong. If this just happened once today I would attribute it to variance, but it has happened 3 times today that I have recieved two of the same numbered card four times in a row. If this is truly random than I am the king of England. Now I can't prove that any site is rigged and I don't intend to even try, but just open your eyes and ears and decide for yourself.

    Now that you have looked at the four hands take a deck of real cards and deal nine players out until the same position recieves the same two numbered cards four times in a row and do it three times and let us all know when it happens.

    Now I have only played approx 10,000 hands this week, but my next goal is to manually look through my hand histories and find any hand where I have aa kk qq jj and ak. I am going to take these and record the times that I am up against another high pocket pair and the number of times I get sucked out on. Right now it feels like I have lost about 40 percent of the time when I am an 85% favorite, but I will post here when I am finished. Now I am not complaining about losing as I have been making money, just something not right.

    Stage #1542848532 Tourney ID 4220953 Holdem Multi Normal Tournament No Limit 400 - 2009-03-21 11:23:21 (ET)
    Table: 2 (Real Money) Seat #8 is the dealer
    Seat 1 - MIKERN (27803 in chips)
    Seat 2 - ORION_X (36014 in chips)
    Seat 3 - JAHBIRD (13110 in chips)
    Seat 4 - RAMPETAMPER3 (4788 in chips)
    Seat 5 - NINAPAUL (22965 in chips)
    Seat 6 - MARCSMOM (19244 in chips)
    Seat 7 - BASALTO (18700 in chips)
    Seat 8 - SWEETMEAT68 (18169 in chips)
    Seat 9 - SMELLYCATCH (4471 in chips)
    MIKERN12 - Ante 50
    ORION_X - Ante 50
    JAHBIRD - Ante 50
    RAMPETAMPER3 - Ante 50
    NINAPAUL - Ante 50
    MARCSMOM - Ante 50
    BASALTO - Ante 50
    SWEETMEAT68 - Ante 50
    SMELLYCATCH - Ante 50
    SMELLYCATCH - Posts small blind 200
    MIKERN12 - Posts big blind 400
    *** POCKET CARDS ***
    Dealt to MIKERN12 [8s 10d]
    ORION_X - Calls 400
    JAHBIRD - Calls 400
    RAMPETAMPER3 - Calls 400
    NINAPAUL - Folds
    MARCSMOM - Folds
    BASALTO - Calls 400
    SWEETMEAT68 - Calls 400
    SMELLYCATCH - Calls 200
    MIKERN12 - Checks
    *** FLOP *** [4d 4h 9d]
    SMELLYCATCH - Checks
    MIKERN12 - Checks
    ORION_X - Checks
    JAHBIRD - Checks
    RAMPETAMPER3 - Bets 3938
    BASALTO - Calls 3938
    SWEETMEAT68 - Folds
    SMELLYCATCH - Folds
    MIKERN12 - Folds
    ORION_X - Folds
    JAHBIRD - Folds
    *** TURN *** [4d 4h 9d] [9s]
    RAMPETAMPER3 - All-In(Raise) 400 to 400
    BASALTO - Calls 400
    *** RIVER *** [4d 4h 9d 9s] [5c]
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    RAMPETAMPER3 - Shows [9c 10s] (Full house, nines full of fours)
    BASALTO - Shows [9h 7h] (Full house, nines full of fours)
    RAMPETAMPER3 Collects 5963 from main pot
    BASALTO Collects 5963 from main pot
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total Pot(11926)
    Board [4d 4h 9d 9s 5c]
    Seat 1: MIKERN12 (big blind) HI:
    Seat 2: ORION_X Folded on the FLOP
    Seat 3: JAHBIRD Folded on the FLOP
    Seat 4: RAMPETAMPER3 won Total (5963) All-In HI:(5963) with Full house, nines full of fours [9c 10s - B:9s,B:9d,P:9c,B:4h,B:4d]
    Seat 5: NINAPAUL Folded on the POCKET CARDS
    Seat 6: MARCSMOM Folded on the POCKET CARDS
    Seat 7: BASALTO won Total (5963) HI:(5963) with Full house, nines full of fours [9h 7h - B:9s,P:9h,B:9d,B:4h,B:4d]
    Seat 8: SWEETMEAT68 (dealer) Folded on the FLOP
    Seat 9: SMELLYCATCH (small blind) Folded on the FLOP

    Stage #1542850114 Tourney ID 4220953 Holdem Multi Normal Tournament No Limit 600 - 2009-03-21 11:24:46 (ET)
    Table: 2 (Real Money) Seat #9 is the dealer
    Seat 1 - MIKERN12 (27353 in chips)
    Seat 2 - ORION_X (35564 in chips)
    Seat 3 - JAHBIRD (12660 in chips)
    Seat 4 - RAMPETAMPER3 (5963 in chips)
    Seat 5 - NINAPAUL (22915 in chips)
    Seat 6 - MARCSMOM (19194 in chips)
    Seat 7 - BASALTO (19875 in chips)
    Seat 8 - SWEETMEAT68 (17719 in chips)
    Seat 9 - SMELLYCATCH (4021 in chips)
    MIKERN12 - Ante 75
    ORION_X - Ante 75
    JAHBIRD - Ante 75
    RAMPETAMPER3 - Ante 75
    NINAPAUL - Ante 75
    MARCSMOM - Ante 75
    BASALTO - Ante 75
    SWEETMEAT68 - Ante 75
    SMELLYCATCH - Ante 75
    MIKERN12 - Posts small blind 300
    ORION_X - Posts big blind 600
    *** POCKET CARDS ***
    Dealt to MIKERN12 [8s 10d]
    JAHBIRD - Folds
    RAMPETAMPER3 - Folds
    NINAPAUL - Folds
    MARCSMOM - Folds
    BASALTO - Folds
    SWEETMEAT68 - Raises 2775 to 2775
    SMELLYCATCH - All-In(Raise) 3946 to 3946
    MIKERN12 - Folds
    ORION_X - Folds
    SWEETMEAT68 - Calls 1171
    *** FLOP *** [5d 8h Ah]
    *** TURN *** [5d 8h Ah] [9s]
    *** RIVER *** [5d 8h Ah 9s] [Js]
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    SWEETMEAT68 - Shows [4d 3d] (ace high)
    SMELLYCATCH - Shows [Ad Kd] (One pair, aces)
    SMELLYCATCH Collects 9467 from main pot
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total Pot(9467)
    Board [5d 8h Ah 9s Js]
    Seat 1: MIKERN12 (small blind) HI:
    Seat 2: ORION_X (big blind) Folded on the POCKET CARDS
    Seat 3: JAHBIRD Folded on the POCKET CARDS
    Seat 4: RAMPETAMPER3 Folded on the POCKET CARDS
    Seat 5: NINAPAUL Folded on the POCKET CARDS
    Seat 6: MARCSMOM Folded on the POCKET CARDS
    Seat 7: BASALTO Folded on the POCKET CARDS
    Seat 8: SWEETMEAT68 HI:lost with ace high [4d 3d - B:Ah,B:Js,B:9s,B:8h,B:5d]
    Seat 9: SMELLYCATCH (dealer) won Total (9467) All-In HI:(9467) with One pair, aces [Ad Kd - B:Ah,P:Ad,P:Kd,B:Js,B:9s]

    Stage #1542850875 Tourney ID 4220953 Holdem Multi Normal Tournament No Limit 600 - 2009-03-21 11:25:27 (ET)
    Table: 2 (Real Money) Seat #1 is the dealer
    Seat 1 - MIKERN12 (26978 in chips)
    Seat 2 - ORION_X (34889 in chips)
    Seat 3 - JAHBIRD (12585 in chips)
    Seat 4 - RAMPETAMPER3 (5888 in chips)
    Seat 5 - NINAPAUL (22840 in chips)
    Seat 6 - MARCSMOM (19119 in chips)
    Seat 7 - BASALTO (19800 in chips)
    Seat 8 - SWEETMEAT68 (13698 in chips)
    Seat 9 - SMELLYCATCH (9467 in chips)
    MIKERN12 - Ante 75
    ORION_X - Ante 75
    JAHBIRD - Ante 75
    RAMPETAMPER3 - Ante 75
    NINAPAUL - Ante 75
    MARCSMOM - Ante 75
    BASALTO - Ante 75
    SWEETMEAT68 - Ante 75
    SMELLYCATCH - Ante 75
    ORION_X - Posts small blind 300
    JAHBIRD - Posts big blind 600
    *** POCKET CARDS ***
    Dealt to MIKERN12 [10s 8d]
    RAMPETAMPER3 - Folds
    NINAPAUL - Folds
    MARCSMOM - Calls 600
    BASALTO - Folds
    SWEETMEAT68 - Folds
    SMELLYCATCH - Folds
    MIKERN12 - Folds
    ORION_X - Calls 300
    JAHBIRD - Checks
    *** FLOP *** [As 7s 3d]
    ORION_X - Checks
    JAHBIRD - Checks
    MARCSMOM - Bets 2475
    ORION_X - Folds
    JAHBIRD - Folds
    MARCSMOM - returned (2475) : not called
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    MARCSMOM - Does not show
    MARCSMOM Collects 2475 from main pot
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total Pot(2475)
    Board [As 7s 3d]
    Seat 1: MIKERN12 (dealer) Folded on the POCKET CARDS
    Seat 2: ORION_X (small blind) Folded on the FLOP
    Seat 3: JAHBIRD (big blind) Folded on the FLOP
    Seat 4: RAMPETAMPER3 Folded on the POCKET CARDS
    Seat 5: NINAPAUL Folded on the POCKET CARDS
    Seat 6: MARCSMOM collected Total (2475) HI:(2475) [Does not show]
    Seat 7: BASALTO Folded on the POCKET CARDS
    Seat 8: SWEETMEAT68 Folded on the POCKET CARDS
    Seat 9: SMELLYCATCH Folded on the POCKET CARDS

    Stage #1542852208 Tourney ID 4220953 Holdem Multi Normal Tournament No Limit 600 - 2009-03-21 11:26:36 (ET)
    Table: 2 (Real Money) Seat #2 is the dealer
    Seat 1 - MIKERN12 (26903 in chips)
    Seat 2 - ORION_X (34214 in chips)
    Seat 3 - JAHBIRD (11910 in chips)
    Seat 4 - RAMPETAMPER3 (5813 in chips)
    Seat 5 - NINAPAUL (22765 in chips)
    Seat 6 - MARCSMOM (20919 in chips)
    Seat 7 - BASALTO (19725 in chips)
    Seat 8 - SWEETMEAT68 (13623 in chips)
    MIKERN12 - Ante 75
    ORION_X - Ante 75
    JAHBIRD - Ante 75
    RAMPETAMPER3 - Ante 75
    NINAPAUL - Ante 75
    MARCSMOM - Ante 75
    BASALTO - Ante 75
    SWEETMEAT68 - Ante 75
    JAHBIRD - Posts small blind 300
    RAMPETAMPER3 - Posts big blind 600
    *** POCKET CARDS ***
    Dealt to MIKERN12 [8s 10c]
    NINAPAUL - Folds
    MARCSMOM - Folds
    BASALTO - Folds
    SWEETMEAT68 - Calls 600
    MIKERN12 - Folds
    ORION_X - Folds
    JAHBIRD - Folds
    RAMPETAMPER3 - Checks
    *** FLOP *** [Qc 2d 6d]
    RAMPETAMPER3 - Checks
    SWEETMEAT68 - Bets 1200
    RAMPETAMPER3 - Folds
    SWEETMEAT68 - returned (1200) : not called
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    SWEETMEAT68 - Does not show
    SWEETMEAT68 Collects 2100 from main pot
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total Pot(2100)
    Board [Qc 2d 6d]
    Seat 1: MIKERN12 Folded on the POCKET CARDS
    Seat 2: ORION_X (dealer) Folded on the POCKET CARDS
    Seat 3: JAHBIRD (small blind) Folded on the POCKET CARDS
    Seat 4: RAMPETAMPER3 (big blind) Folded on the FLOP
    Seat 5: NINAPAUL Folded on the POCKET CARDS
    Seat 6: MARCSMOM Folded on the POCKET CARDS
    Seat 7: BASALTO Folded on the POCKET CARDS
    Seat 8: SWEETMEAT68 collected Total (2100) HI:(2100

    Posted 2 months ago #

32. mikern12
    Member

    Okay this is some funny shit. I downloaded pokertracker for free from their website just to get a quick analysis of my hand histories. Last week I deposited 20 dollars to ultimate bet and you should see my graphs. I mean this is some funny chit, I mean really really funny. The great thing about poker tracker is that it proves exactly what I thought. Okay ready here we go. First three days I am up 35 dollar playing pennies, one and two cent blinds. All my hands hold up through the river. Now I have not changed anything about the way that I am playing and I actually came in sixth in a 3 dollar 400 person tournament so I have a small bankroll which I was knocked out of with aa against qq but anyway. My graph has plumetted it is awesome, I am now down 50 dollars and my other graph tells me that I was ahead after 90 percent of the flops but lost 87 percent at showdown. Lmfao not rigged my ass. Anyone who wants to come on here and make fun of me or call me a donk lets go play heads up or better yet show me your database with poker tracker analysis. I would post it here but I can't figure out how to copy it. I will continue to play at this lame site just to collect more hand histories, my new goal in life is to prove that online poker is rigged and I will do so.

    Posted 2 months ago #

33. eblade
    Moderator

    mikern12,

    Apparently you've never played any live poker?

    Posted 2 months ago #

34. kidkvno1
    Member

    """
    i have played on alot of different sites and the suck outs are mind boggling. shit doesnt seem right. the only sit ive played on that seems to play pretty well is CARBON POKER. if u havent played there i recommend tryin it out....plus the emoticons are cool. i know 1 site thats fuckin rigged is pokerstars. the worst plays are rewarded on there by runners and dominated hands all the time. the next time i flop a set and some hits running str8 or flush cards im gonna snap
    """"
    tokerstarj Stop trying to trap players on hands....
    I wished the crybaby's would learn how to play be for saying a thing, and that gos for OP to.
    mikern12
    Your still in .01/.02 games.... And a $3.00 tournament is out of your BR. 1% to 2% is for tournaments and 5% for ring games. You are way out of the range you should be in for YOUR BR.

    Posted 2 months ago #

35. kidkvno1
    Member

    Oh i also forgot to add that when you see it on TV they don't tend to show the whole 12 hours and all of the hands in the 12 hours they played... And so stop thinking you should see hands like that all of the time, and if you would do some digging in to it you would find out that even, at live tables there are times you get some real bad beats, and go card dead, thats were skill takes place....
    Though most of the newcomers to poker don't know how to play and start saying the site is rigged, and thats were pick up some books and reading them helps..... I am sure most will stand by to what i said..

    what looks wrong, if i did not know better it looks like someone edited it!
    {{{ Seat 1 - >>>>>>> MIKERN <<<<<< (27803 in chips)
    Seat 2 - ORION_X (36014 in chips)
    Seat 3 - JAHBIRD (13110 in chips)
    Seat 4 - RAMPETAMPER3 (4788 in chips)
    Seat 5 - NINAPAUL (22965 in chips)
    Seat 6 - MARCSMOM (19244 in chips)
    Seat 7 - BASALTO (18700 in chips)
    Seat 8 - SWEETMEAT68 (18169 in chips)
    Seat 9 - SMELLYCATCH (4471 in chips)
    MIKERN12 - Ante 50}}}

    Posted 2 months ago #

36. mmateo
    Member

    mikern12 is a penny donk who sucks at poker and cries over and over again. So you lost a few hands out of 10k who cares so does every one else. You posted BS hand histories before and every time you pushed all in will junk or were obviously behind and lost. No surprise. Boo Hoo you lost all .50$ you had on the table. Im surprised you didnt push all in pre with your 10-8, you must be showing some dicipline these days LOL.

    I challenge you to a heads up match on full tilt. How much $2/4 $5/10. That will be dollars not cents donk. I dont play pennies never have never will. After I take the .50 or 2$ you have in your account will you cry then to. Put some real money on and tell me when your ready.

    Posted 2 months ago #

37. mmateo
    Member

    My bankroll on full tilt is $9,245.86 as of 3-23-09. Try to take as much of it as you can mikern12. Your a donk and always will be a donk. You play penny games because you suck and you know if you moved up you will be eaten a live by real players. You only deposit $20 at a time because you know you suck and your scared to lose it.

    Ill even deposit on UB just for you. Name the game and the level. Ill play you for your roll. And thats your roll cuz any amount you say will do nothing to mine...

    Posted 2 months ago #

38. mikern12
    Member

    Okay mmateo you are too good for me. I don't want to play you heads up for my bankroll, but why don't we play say for 5 dollars and make it a charity event. Since your so good I bet a bunch of the people here would like to see you get in with the worst and suck out on me like everyone else does. Your right I am a penny donk, because I don't trust these sites with 1000's of my money, especially since I have been burned before. Now I thought I told you to provide evidence, where is your evidence. Before you come on here providing your not rigged and mikes a donk, provide evidence. I provided mine, where's yours? If online poker isn't rigged, prove it. I will check back for your answer to the 5 dollar heads up, but it has to be on ub not on fulltilt.

    Posted 2 months ago #

39. mikern12
    Member

    Oh by the way I forgot to mention, the loser donates their bankroll to Boston Childrens Hospital. Since your so good this shouldn't be a problem.

    Posted 2 months ago #

40. mmateo
    Member

    My proof of what? That I have won money. I can sit at a table with all of it if you want to see it. If you think thats a lot your crazy. Some of the players I play against have 35k, 50k and some who I guess step down cuz no tables are playing higher have over 100k. And thats just at the mid stakes i play at. Obviously since the max deposit is only $600 there are a lot of players making a lot of money. Can you really say UB singled YOU out of the thousands of players on there site to lose. No you cant and neither can anyone else on any other site. Ive been sucked out on numerous occasions. And sucked out a few myself ;). Every time I flop trips it seems I get flushed. Last night I had a short stack push with 1010 and flopped a set against my pocket KK. Rigged i dont think so happens all the time. Was I a favorite to win, yes. I stacked off against another player later on and got it back. Im well bank rolled for my limits so I can handle it. It happens. My advise to the rigged claimers is to double bankroll for your limits. Even if your playing the 5% rule 2-3 hits can devastate your roll. Mine included. If your playing 10nl bank roll is $200 DB is $400. Whats a $10 hit to a $400 BR. Nothing.

    My first deposit was on Party Poker a few years ago of $50. Gone in two weeks. I free rolled from then on and played on that until I was blocked by Bush. Rigged site or just inexperience. Looking back on how I play now to how good I thought I was then inexperience. And dont think im saying im good im just not as bad as i was when i first started.

    The reason you low stakes players think you lose a lot is because when you play for pennies every flop has every player in it. Of course your AA wont stand up to 9 or 10 players the % goes way down with even two players in the hand vs just one. Do you really think you can push a noob off middle pair with a $0.30 push. And it just gets harder the higher you go.

    As far as playing you on UB I hate the software. And most heads up cash games start at .25 .50 on most sites. The $5 will be gone in 20 hands for rake alone. You made the challenge to play anyone heads up so if you cant play for real money why challenge. If I put money on UB it will be $50-100 and thats what ill play for.

    Posted 2 months ago #

41. mmateo
    Member

    For those of you who keep starting topics like this that online poker is a scam and rigged, why are you members of the PPA...

    Posted 2 months ago #

42. joe7280
    Member

    Peeps, I think we would all appreciate it if we could prevent this from degenerating into a flame war over peoples ability to play poker.

    I am in the Red myself, but have seen my game improve quite a bit over the past few months since I started playing again. I am consistantly going very, very deep in large tournamants and have cashed a few times.

    There is a fundamental difference between playing in a $3 MTT and playing in a $24 MTT. There is also a bigger difference when you step up further to the $69, $100, and $200 MTTs. The level of play and ability of your opponents DRASTICALLY improves the higher the buy in.

    For instance, I played in FT's $24 buy-in $35k guarentee last night. The top 189 got paid, and I got knocked out in like 275th place. I didn't cash, but I played consistant poker and performed well. I got my money in when I was ahead and only got sucked out on one time out of 250+ hands. I got knocked out of the tourney when I was short stacked and raised 3xBB preflop from UTG with pocket 9's. The button reraised me all in, and while I should have stepped away, I called and he showed QQ. I didn't hit the miracle, and my 3 hours of play/$24 was for nothing more than experience playing sound poker. I am a better player for having that experience.

    Moral of the story: Play sound poker and your game will improve. Suck outs are a fact of life we all have to deal with.

    Posted 2 months ago #

43. Skallagrim
    Moderator

    Even though Barry Greenstein says "math is idiotic", math still has its role in evaluating things.

    For example, did you know that 2-7os will beat A-A heads up about 12% of the time?

    Its idiotic but true.

    Skallagrim

    Posted 2 months ago #

44. mmateo
    Member

    If you cant handle suck outs in NLH never ever play PLO :)

    Posted 2 months ago #

45. mmateo
    Member

    This is for JOE.

    Last MTT guarantee I played I was in the money. Deep stacked. Shorty pushes with junk, medium calls, guy with slightly more than me calls. I had AA. I could of prob auto folded my way to the final table....Should of flat called and pushed the flop to get him to fold. I push to isolate the shorties...Idiot calls with K10o. WOOHOO ill be chip leader after this...Runner runner river straight. Im out and all the donks at the table congradulate him on a nice hand. WHAT K10 off....anyways....

    Posted 2 months ago #

46. mikern12
    Member

    Why can't I post and also be a member of a site to support legalizing online poker. The fact that I think online poker is rigged is even more of a reason to want to play poker at a legalized and regulated site. Sometime I don't think online poker is rigged, but then weird stuff happens like people calling huge river bets with ace high almost like they can see the other persons cards or the frequency of my jj running into aa or the flush draws that always seem to hit the only person calling my preflop raise when I have a monster hand. Now like I said I enjoy playing poker and am successful when I play live poker as I can count on my hands having a chance. The penny tables on ub are pretty tight actually better than the 5-10 that I play at the casino. Now its stats like this one that are troubling. According to poker tracker I am a 35 percent winner with aks but a 90 percent winner with aqs, definitely a problem there. I wasn't asking you for proof of the money you have as I really don't care, I was asking for proof that online poker isn't rigged. You say it isn't show me proof. You call me a donk for posting 4 hand histories showing hold cards for four consecutive hands that are the same, this is statistically impossible to happen 3 times in a 24 hour period especially when I only played 1100 hands. It would take 100's of years to reproduce that with real cards and I am concerned that the rng is either fuked up or programed for action. Now I also never claimed to be singled out, as this crap happens to everyone.

    Posted 2 months ago #

47. kidkvno1
    Member

    Go play at some real tables and then say poker is rigged... You can get the same cards in real poker.
    Though it looks like you edited the hand histories.... And i am sure i can not email the site and get thous hands....
    I have only seen it happen once, and even at that it was 2 hands... And i have played some were around 10K in hands.

    Your odds with AA are lower then K10os

    Posted 2 months ago #

48. mikern12
    Member

    I was going to alter the hand histories to remove my name from them but then thought it wasn't a good idea, which is why the 12 is missing from one of my hand histories.

    Posted 2 months ago #

49. mmateo
    Member

    How about i set up a private tourny on full tilt friday night $10 NL,PL,HA,PLO,HORSE whatever you want

    mikern you in...

    Posted 2 months ago #

50. Chris The Sith
    Member

    To people who think online poker is rigged.
    Current mood: argumentative
    Category: Games

    Lets take a trip in my time machine, back to a few months ago. 60 minutes runs a special on ONE online poker site "Absolute Poker" and yes it is one of the online sites where I play, well mainly play, trust them 100% and Ubet.
    Suddenly at my former security job, people were coming up to me acting like online poker experts...."You said you play online poker right? You going to quit playing now and finally get smart?". Now normally my response to this would be to call them a idiot and walk off but I decided to try to hold out a intelligent Olive branch and try to have some Peace.
    So I told them "Look.... yes there was a online user on Absolute poker who had a super account linked to the company, yes they/he/she stole millions of dollars and could see other players hole cards, yes Russ Hamilton a poker pro was behind it and his fat ass is in Vegas and was never brought to justice."
    I usually like to start of agreeing with people, so they get a sense that I completely understand where they are coming from, then I will go ahead and prove my point.
    "Did you not catch the part where everyone, who was stolen from got their money back with interest? Yes there were a lot of questions about how they could have handled this whole situation better at first, even denied it was possible at the start. However when the evidence was brought to light, it was handled very impressively, the player's money was given back with interest and Hamilton is now a outcast from poker, and black listed. Which is probably even worse than Jail time."
    Usually when you say something that makes sense, people take a long time to search for something to say, really I think they were just trying to throw rocks at my glass house. People tend to label things and believe the first thing they hear when it comes to something they are not a part of. We will use tattoos for a example, when I did not have them and wasn't shaving my head, I got tons of job offers before the poker years, when I was in a band. Why because I blended in I was normal on the surface it was almost like mainstream society came up gave me a huge hug and said welcome to the family.
    When I slowly morphed into the person I am today, the gap between them and myself in general became wider and wider. Then I was accepted by a smaller group of people who were real. People at a few of my jobs, were asking me if I did or sold drugs, there was even a time when I was brought up as a suspect of destroying company machines. (which is all untrue of course no criminal record).
    All of this came the more I became my real self, instead of trying to blend in. See none of the people who were putting these labels on me, had any tattoos, were into the music the band played, they had much different goals. Yet they were experts on how people with tattoos do drugs, guys with saved heads and tats have all done prison time,musicians are people who sleep around and cheat. You get the point I hope.
    Online poker is the same deal, one bad example and suddenly everyone who doesn't play poker, or isn't a good poker is united that it is rigged. Or everyone who plays is a gambling addict (addicted to poker for sure).
    You can search online, just search "(enter the poker site here) is rigged" you will find countless people complaining about how,THEY ARE ALL rigged, they lost to a bigger full house,lost with a straight flush to a royal flush, some stories are so utterly fantastic it is like listening to your drunk friend at the bar impressing a chick about his many years as a dolphin therapist.
    All this can do is fuel the US congress ignorance even further, the only reason they are against this in the first place is they can't figure out a way to make decent money of it. Full tilt poker alone makes 40 billion dollars a year, combine the top sites together, it would most likely surpass 100 billion dollars.
    Right now they have banished online poker players to the far ends of cyberspace with some states having harsh penalties that rival drug crimes....idiotic and all from playing a game.
    For the cry babies who post all over the net about these sites are rigged, you need to realize you are either on a long bad run that happens, or you just plain suck.
    In Vegas players get drunk and blame a dealer for the bad run of cards, I have heard these players call dealers assholes and cunts. Makes me sick, they should be knocked out. Online the "sites are rigged". I will give you a example of how a bad player thinks online poker is rigged, I will probably lose you non poker people out there because you probably barely know what hands beat what. So I will try to make this simple.
    A player who has won a few cash games, against friends gets online and thinks he can really play poker, that he is really really good (all poker players think they are better than they really are, even the great ones).
    From first position (meaning first person to act) they have K J of clubs this player raises it up, one person in late position calls. The flop comes 10 Q A the bad, house game player thinks "Oh yeah baby hit a straight" So he bets the person in late position calls, the turn card is a 10. So the person with K J is betting big time, the person in late position goes all in K J calls, person in late position has AA giving him a full house Aces full of 10's the river is a dud because K J is drawing dead. He complains how online poker is rigged blah blah blah how it is a set up hand.
    Lets break this down, K J, played a average hand in horrible position, he simply should have folded the hand, so what do we have him doing wrong already? Him over valuing cards. He hits the flop gets very lucky suck out against AA, he keeps betting not even taking into consideration what the other player likely has. Turn card is a 10, the best hand before the flop AA won. Again the player who played a average hand in early position not thinking about what the other player has bets out and the player with the full house makes the money off the weaker player. That is how poker works over time, if the donkey would have laid down the average hand like he was suppose to, never would have occurred but then again Pros and better players do not want him too.
    Just a example really, or guys who lose with AA, who go all in pre flop which just how it works sometimes. AA doesn't mean it can't be beat, it just means you will probably win between 75% to 90% of the time depending on the hand match up of course.
    So in closing anything over time, is going to have some bad things happen, no matter if it is your job or online poker and someone who isn't good at something or is unlucky is going to try and blame anything rather than accepting they are either unlucky or dare to accept the fact...they aren't as good as they think they are.
    While there are some smaller sites out there, like any business that simply cannot be trusted and will screw you over, like any business good and bad ones.
    The large and medium big name online poker sites are not rigged or set up, if you think so you are only 1 of 3 kinds of people. 1. you believe whatever you see on T.V or read. You are a dumb ass who doesn't play poker or you are just conservative and or your mommy and daddy had a gambling addiction. 2. You are a complete idiot who doesn't realize you are just being unlucky so you should quit poker and take the time to be a chess professional where no luck is involved 3. You are a bad poker player, a donkey, a fish. You need to believe your poker game is great because your life sucks, and you are in a dead end job. You need to quit and do what you can to better your life or tell me online where you play so I can take your money. Don't worry I'll spend it wisely : )
    Oh and I wanted to set the record straight about Absolute poker, because I have read if you are in America it is really hard to get customer service here, and never by phone. You are all full of shit.
    My first deposit which was only 100 dollars to test out, was mainly to check out the site, play some poker, black jack to pass the time, then invest thousands in my account. I am happy with the results and here is why.
    My first deposit Absolute poker called me about 5 seconds later and I talked to Tom, he wanted to make sure all my information was correct, my credit card and everything was legit, he was like a long lost buddy on the phone and wished me a lot of luck. I know for a fact that Poker Stars, Full Tilt and Cake Poker do not do this, and if they did sure would not do it for someone who deposited 100 dollars.
    I know cause the last year I have put thousands of dollars on full tilt and poker stars.
    You might be thinking Hey big deal, so what? Just a used car salesmen line.
    I won a Pot limit Omaha tournament my second night on there, finished first out of 31.
    I get a email from Absolute Poker saying I need to contact their security department by phone (toll free number). They wanted to make sure I was legit, went over the details of my account one more time, and it was great to see a company that would go in detail like that. So that is two personal phone calls in a matter of days.
    I can promise you full tilt and poker stars does not do that.
    There were two players, being overly rude on full tilt, and working together on a cash game Omaha table. I sent a email to support, pasted the logs, told them I thought it might be a team game. Another player did as well I was not alone.
    Well 4 weeks later I still haven't heard anything back I know they got my email as well, amazingly the cashier department was right there to make sure my money got in and out okay, through email no hands on voice customer service.
    I'm not saying Full Tilt is a bad place to play, In fact I think if you are a high roller that is the only place to play online mainly based on the Omaha 2000/4000 blinds. Honestly I get the feeling they are almost too busy to get back to medium and low level players.
    So yeah Absolute is a great place to play, the people are great, the players are much nicer and respectful on there, then on the bigger two. They have cleaned the pest who was the insider and now they provide the best experience online, with Ubet. When it comes to online Poker.
    People who post on the net are just losing players, making stuff up about a company that has made every effort to make me feel at home.
    That is why they will always be first in my book.

    Posted 1 month ago #

51. Chris The Sith
    Member

    That is my blog from my Myspace page, I thought it was somewhat fitting for this topic. I just had to say something regarding this issue.

    Posted 1 month ago #

52. Chris The Sith
    Member

    Maybe if you guys complaining, take a look at my concept for sit and gos you will see really you loses might come from bankroll management or just being a bad poker player.
    Read Below.

    My brand new poker Theory. "C-bucks"
    Category: Games
    ROI.(return on investment) What it really means.

    I have been playing online poker for nearly a year, I have been playing 10 years in real life though.

    With all the internet software out there, it's hard not to be put under the microscope by other players.

    You may have a horrible ROI (return on investment) or you could
    have a very decent one, The point is although you can gain insight on a
    decent number of players. However sometimes it is a horrible way to
    gauge your poker skill or chances on becoming a internet Pro.

    I know players who have a very very good ROI, 50% + got lucky in
    some big online tournaments and used that money to play some one table
    high buy in sit and gos won a few of those on a hot streak. Now if you
    look at his stats you would think he is some kind of a poker god.
    However even though he is somewhat a solid player there is something
    the ROI doesn't tell you, or tell himself. That he is a losing PLAYER.
    His overall sit and go record was horrible. He got lucky in a few
    tournaments and won some high priced sit and go and has a profit over
    500,000 dollars, but before that he just wasn't a winning player at
    all. He is one of those guys that ignores math completely and plays off
    his gut, and has never ever read a poker book of any kind. Everyone
    loses many more sit and gos than you win, fact of life but he was a
    typical only bet if he has a hand player.

    I know it is better to be lucky than good, but my friend would get
    killed most of the time, in cash games, sit and goes and the like.

    If you were too look at my ROI average, you would see that I have
    a -30% ROI (also played around 1,000 more sit and gos with my friend).
    However that is very deceptive as one of my internet pro buddies
    pointed out. He told me if I wanted to really know my skill I'd have to
    count all my top 3 sit and Go finishes, count 1st, 2nd and 3rd place
    finishes and go through every sit and go and find out what my overall
    record is.

    I asked him why that is so important, it is then he told me
    bankroll management is why my ROI average is so horrible. I'd win a the
    lower stakes, build up a bankroll go up to the higher sit and gos win
    for a few, hit a bad streak and not have the swings to cover it and be
    on the rail. So really ROI isn't a good way to gauge how good I am. So
    I looked into it and I advise you do the same with yours.

    My overall sit and go record was 334- 683, I counted how many
    times I came in first, second, and third. Those are wins. Now that
    record doesn't look all that impressive as I told my friend. He then
    told me, to keep the buy in the same, and start low, 3.50 +80, each
    time. What he meant was make all of my wins, wins for that buy in for
    first second and 3rd.

    I did that and I was simply amazed what good bankroll management
    would have done, I would have lost a grand total of 2,595.40 dollars,
    and won 3,468.15, at that lower level had I stayed on it and was
    mentally focused I would have made profit, to the tune of 872.75
    dollars. So my skill isn't reflected in the ROI, my ROI is telling me,
    I need to commit completely to bankroll management. I was playing 160+9
    sit and gos on full tilt poker, I won one of them for 720 dollars, and
    finished second 3 times in a row, then the normal losing streak hit
    where good cards didn't hold up and I was down to nothing again. If I
    had would practiced bankroll management never would have Happened! I
    would have worked up to that point, and made long term profits, but I
    went up there, with only about 30 buy in's and that isn't enough with
    the overall luck swings of the game, especially if you do not move
    down.

    How important is bankroll management, everyone knows you will go
    broke, however nobody says you are robbing from yourself if you are a
    winning player.

    Making the buy in 160+9 adding my wins I would have made
    140,120,00 dollars! In the time it took me to play those games which
    was 6 months! I have had some people tell me my friends advice is the
    greatest they have heard for lower limits by the reality is, it doesn't
    work for the higher limits because your win rate goes down because the
    level of players. That is where they are wrong.

    All of those games were super turbos, I have played all the way up
    to 160+9, and there really isn't much difference, it's all in poker
    until you get a chip stack, you go in with top cards, know when to
    steal. The math shows if you do that, you will win, it is a fast form
    of poker, where everyone starts with 300 chips. So if you are a weak
    player (which I'm not) you will never get out played post flop, because
    it's all in poker.
    I have been told it isn't poker, but tell that to, Raul Paez and
    Andy Black (who finished 5th in the 2005 world series of poker main
    event). They play those tournaments, I have knocked them out and they
    have done the same to me. They also know these tourney's are a gold
    mine in the form of how many of them you can do. So that blows any
    opinion out of the water that no real poker player, plays those and
    they "aren't poker" they are a "crap shoot".

    So now I am saving up for a bankroll of 8,000 to 10,000 dollars
    and I am strictly going to play those for a living, and that doesn't
    even count MTT wins, or cash games. Even standard sit and gos. If I was
    just to play those(the super turbos) I would make at worst 280,240
    dollars a year Minimum for every 1,000 +games played I would be around
    the 140,120,00 mark.

    I am not saying ROI, isn't a great way to find weak players, even
    rate yourself. I am saying sometimes you need to read between the lines
    and realize with a few outside adjustments, like bankroll management
    you will find the your ROI, even though very poor is not a reflection
    on skill for some people or yourself.
    L.T.S.G.R (or as to call Long term sit and go record over 1,000 +
    games) is the best way to tell, if you are a lucky player had some big
    wins taking a shot, a bad player, or a winning grinder. So try it for
    yourself.... the more games you have played the less luck has anything
    to do with it. Just add your level of buy in, with your wins and
    subtract your losses, That is your hidden L.T.S.G.R dollars! (I could
    be really lame and call them C-bucks,in fact I will cause it is easier
    to remember).

    So when you are a sit and go player on a losing streak, having a
    bad month, add up how many C-bucks you have and I hope you are all
    C-buck RICH!

    Chris

    Posted 1 month ago #

53. eblade
    Moderator

    Maybe you could just post links to your blog, instead of wholesale articles from it.

    Posted 1 month ago #

54. mikern12
    Member

    Okay so you want people or as you said fish and donkey's to quit whinning about rigged cards and bad beats. Okay fine. I challange every single person who thinks online poker is rigged or has been called a donkey by these people claiming to make tons of money off of online poker to quit playing and find a new hobby. These people,example see previous poster, keep making fun of people and complaining about how we think the sites rig their cards for action, so if they want to make fun of people for expressing their opinion stop playing online poker. You morons want to know what is going to happen when all of us rigged theorists stop playing, you will not make any money. You will have tables full of "poker professionals" and I use that term lightly. All you will have is a bunch of morons sitting around a table waiting for premium hands. You people must be the most idiotic, self centered, morons on the face of the earth. Keep dogging the players that are supposedly making you money and see how quickly you become poor.

    Posted 1 month ago #

55. LPerkins1523
    Member

    Even if you took out the rigtards.. there would still be plenty of fish in the sea. Rather than blame the sites, you should look at your own short-comings and spend time improving your game. This rigtard thread is no different than any other rigtard thread ever posted in any online poker forum. People speak up claiming x site is rigged, yet no one ever has any sort of proof, not even the slightest bit of it to discuss.

    Posted 1 month ago #

56. mikern12
    Member

    Hey moron, read the rest of my posts as I already told you that I have the proof. If you want it give me your email address and I will send it to you. Poker tracker does not lie.

    Posted 1 month ago #

57. eblade
    Moderator

    Mikern, exactly what is your point? Be clear, and concise.

    And is this really appropriate for this particular forum, anyway? If I were an actual Moderator, rather than just looking like one due to a software glitch, I'd highly consider erasing this entire thread, due to it having nothing whatsoever to do with anything this forum should be concerned with, IMO

    Posted 1 month ago #

58. mmateo
    Member

    This Chris guys another idiot, i like where he says "I would of made $140,120". And my online pro friend bwahahahahah.......Yea and if I won every hand or sng i played id be retired...wont happen cant heppen. Super turbos are more of a crap shoot than any other sng. Play them all you want and you will lose money. Not saying i dont play them from time to time they are fun but for $175 no way. Might as well just light the cash on fire. Once you get to a certain point in your BR cash is the only way to make money unless you like sitting in $500 sngs for hrs waiting for them to fill up...

    And for mike a table full of regs is fine with me. Regs with big BRs are looser players than the fish. Pick your spots and they will pay out.

    Mike you have proof. You have proof that what is it UB actually singled you out and rigged your account. Oh wait you did post where you went all in with what 10 8 off and lost. Or KJ or some other crap all in hand. Post your proof. This post is really long and full of BS and you have yet to prove anything. Poker tracker does not lie. I use it and no AA does not win every time you have it, neither does KK. Just because it may be what an 80% or something favorite means it will never lose the other %20 of the time. Mine shows 23 has 0% chance of winning. I have won more pots with 23 than AA. Why well because the odds of getting 23 are greater than AA. Poker tracker is your proof online poker is rigged. Give me a fcking break... My tracker is in the grean all that matters to me. Dont give a sht if my AA loses every now and then, it happens, its the end result of all my hands that matter.

    Posted 1 month ago #

59. TheEngineer
    Administrator

    Guys,

    We encourage a free flow of information here, but it must remain civil and polite.

    Posted 1 month ago #

60. mmateo
    Member

    Please delete these idiotic threads that accuse online poker of being RIGGED. Save crying for 2+2 or pocket 5s or some other crybaby site.

    Posted 1 month ago #

Reply »

You must log in to post.