I HAVE PLAYED ON PACIFIC POKER AND WON OVER 12,000 DOLLARS BEFORE THE US SHUT THEM DOWN.SO I CONSIDER MYSELF A VERY GOOD POKER PLAYER.SINCE I HAVE BEEN PLAYING ON FULLTILT I AM TOTTALY CONVINCED NO MATTER HOW GOOD A PLAYER YOU ARE YOU ARE DOOMED TO LOOSE BECAUSE OF THE WAY THEY HAVE THE COMPUTER SOFTWARE SET UP.THE ONLY ONE THAT WINS IS THE POKER SITE.
EVEN THOUGH I LOVE PLAYING POKER ,ITS SIMPLY STUPID TO THROW YOUR MONEY AWAY TO THESE POKER SITES.ITS IMPSOSIBLE TO WIN ON THESE SITES.WHEN YOU PLAY OVER 200 HANDS AND WIN ONLY 1% PER CENT. THE ONLY DUMMY IS THE PLAYER WHO KEEPS ON PUTTING IN MONEY TO THESE POKER SITES.
Poker Players Alliance Forums » Poker Players Alliance
IMPOSSIBLE TO WIN ON POKER SITES?
(62 posts)-
Posted 5 months ago #
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i have played on alot of different sites and the suck outs are mind boggling. shit doesnt seem right. the only sit ive played on that seems to play pretty well is CARBON POKER. if u havent played there i recommend tryin it out....plus the emoticons are cool. i know 1 site thats fuckin rigged is pokerstars. the worst plays are rewarded on there by runners and dominated hands all the time. the next time i flop a set and some hits running str8 or flush cards im gonna snap
Posted 5 months ago # -
FUCK POKERSTARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted 5 months ago # -
ive played at pokerstars for 4 years now. always win about 400 yearly;then somehow i lose it all each year. amazing isnt it? ive just finished playin for 4 months, built up another 300-400 dollars,(play $10 sng no limit). i place 1st,2nd,3rd, 40-50% of the time. NOW.... the last 2 days ive played 25 of those $10 sngs.......guess what? ive not placed in top 3 of any of these. not one,nodda,zippo. hows that for a little run of BAD LUCK. what a bunch of bullshit. lou
Posted 5 months ago # -
hey lumpy u sound like me...same site same games same problems. i play 18ppl sngs usually win regularly then i go weeks w/o cashin. all the runners and 3 outers drive me to the edge pokerstars rewards the tourist
Posted 5 months ago # -
Thats why we are here...to maintain confidence and integrity in online poker. until we are successful there is limited reason for sites to be transparent and 100% honest.
Posted 5 months ago # -
Guys,
There are a lot of regular winners on FTP. I play it a lot there and have done fine, as have many others. Check out 2+2 for more from winning players.
Also, both FTP and PS contribute solidly to the IGC which, in turn, donates to PPA. So, they're fighting FOR regulation.
The reality is that poker does have a great deal of variability, so it's easy to win one day and lose the next. If it weren't for that, losing players would never come back. If you're not a consistent winning player, I recommend patronizing strategy forums and reading more.
Good luck with your games!
TE
Posted 5 months ago # -
I am new to the PPA, so hello all. I can say for myself, that amid all the ppl saying that online poker is rigged, I have noted that if you are consistently a good player, you WILL end up on top. Of all the sites, I trust FTP the most, but i have been playing alot of .50/1 NL @ ultimatebet just for the BBJ's. Altho Ill prolly never hit it, its worth a shot. Ive consistently played my game, and i started with a 100 dollar deposit on UB, and Im up to 320 in a little over a week, so, stick to your game, it'll work out. (if you're good, that is) :P
Posted 5 months ago # -
No matter how good (or bad) you play, Pokerstars is a crap shoot. Ultimate Bet and Absolute have been cheating and it is now proven. If you carefully track the beats (your beats) and know the odds, you'll see that certain players cannot win on Pokerstars. They may have a black list or something that excludes certain players for whatever reason. Other players, no matter how badly they play or what cards they hold, will win. When a player consitantly wins with 7-9 os and 6-8 os against pocket aces and queens, then something is very wrong. Sure they should suck out about 10% of the time, but winning 80% of the time?? No way. So Pokerstars supports the IGC which supports the PPA, so what? They take your money and give some back to the PPA. If I want that I will contribute directly to the PPA. WE desperately need online regulation, consistancy and policing. Write your legislators and call your congressman. Until these sites are located in and responsible to the United States, there is no control.
Posted 4 months ago # -
Try Spade Club
Posted 4 months ago # -
It is slightly misleading to say that Ultimatebet and Absolute were cheating, as it has been determined that it was a rogue employee who was in fact doing the cheating, and not the site itself.
If any of you can give me a solid reason for why a company like pokerstars, who makes money hand over fist, and who's investors and owners would be millionaires whether they cheated or not, why they would risk everything to get a few extra bucks? It doesn't make any sense. They do have a lot to lose (regardless of what many are saying). If Pokerstars was found to be cheating their customers, or fixing the game in any way, shape, or form they would take much more of a hit membership-wise and lose much more revenue compared to the few extra bucks they might make rigging the software so that the pots are larger and they get more of a rake, for example. It wouldn't make sense for them to take that risk.
There are plenty of winning players on these sites. Why do guys like Johnnybax consistently win? Does the software have a hardon for them or something?
--John
PS Does anyone know if any professional poker players have given their opinion on the legitimacy of online poker in general?
Posted 4 months ago # -
Well even when I did win, I didn't. I came in second at FleetStreetGames(FSG) 50k tourney on October 26 for a prize of $7500. I have not seen a dime of it, and management is refusing to put out any information to the many customers it owes prizes to. FSG was billed as an added benefit of Poker School Online (PSO) and was promising prize tourneys like other subscription/membership sites. Now it appears that PSO is doomed because of its shady dealings and refusal to pay its promised prizes. The lack of information from any one in management at either site is another example of why people do not trust online poker. Even so-called "legal sites" are keeping our money.
Posted 4 months ago # -
I definitely wouldn't put it past smaller sites, or even the medium sized ones who might try to screw the customers, but not the big sites, pokerstars, fulltilt, ultimatebet (barring the rogue employee situation I was talking about). I'm slightly nervous playing on cake poker but I haven't won much yet, so I haven't cashed out yet. We'll see.
Posted 4 months ago # -
All I know is that since I have quit playing online poker, which is going on 2 months now, I am a much happier person. I have a lot more money to play real poker when I go to the casino and much more time to spend with my children. I have taken up video games such as rock band and oblivion and these are much less time occupying and will play occasional poker with wsop battle for the braclet, which in my opinion is much more fun than playing crazy dumb ass card chasing morons online. Will I ever return to playing online, NO WAY.
Posted 3 months ago # -
Im a dealer in a Brick and Morter casino and deal poker 40 hours a week to a variety of players. Some play 2-4 limit and others play No limit or Pot Limit Omaha ( the biggest game). I see all the suckouts everyday. I play online every day. I have no problems with any of the sites except Full Tilt. I use PokerTracker software to identify the players habits. It seems that most of the players at FTP use some kind of tracking software. FTP allows data mining, allowing a non player to watch and record up to 18 tables at once, all day and collect information on who ever is playing. I can do this and replay any hand my computer has seen. PokerStars doesnt allow this and neither does Ultimate Bet. You must be a player to track that table. FTP is loaded with semi pros, tracking 24/7 so when you go to that site there are people playing at your limit that "know" you. But are the sites rigged ? In my opinion as a professional dealer no, they are not. Thats not to say some are using cell phones to collude but the sites are monitoring for that. Poker is a game of chance and knowing how to play it helps your chance. But those random wierd things happen. I know many winners online but they arent trying to be Maverick or Moneymaker. They are just grinding it out , taking the good with the bad. They have losing streaks and quit for a while. But the money is too good to quit for long. Everyone wants to make millions playing poker and it just aint gonna happen to you. Find a limit your comfortable with and start winning even if its just at the 10 cent tables
Posted 3 months ago # -
PotPusher, FT does not record hand history unless you are in a hand, and datamining is against the rules on FT. From what I hear, Stars however, does allow it, so I'm pretty sure you are exactly backwards on your view there.
Posted 3 months ago # -
eblade, FT does allow watching up to 18 tables at once. Maybe the hand isn't recorded in their software, but it is available to me. And if I can use that data others can also. And from my playing online for years, I sense the enhanced level of play at FT and can only attribute it to players "Watching" tables. Maybe they don't call it datamining, that is my description, but just the same the level of play is better by a lot
Posted 3 months ago # -
Yea full tilt is rigged LOL. Last night for example I played a sng. Im on the bubble with 2xxx chips, low stack has 1xxx, chip leader has 5xxx. On the button I get AA and pot bet. Chip leader puts me all in. Yes just what I wanted. I call. He has 88. Flop 8x8. Bubbled. Yep rigged.
The sites are not rigged. Shit just happens. What did I do I played another. Its called bankroll management. Im bankrolled for this type of situation because even in live play shit happens. Did you watch the 08 WSOP final table. Yang didnt win with skill, he sucked out almost every single hand. He got it in with the worst and won every time. Players then backed off because they were afraid of the suckout and how lucky not skilled he was. Tom Dwan is another example. Suck out king.
If suck outs happen and you get upset. Walk away, take a break, drop a level, but dont quit. Did I make the wrong play going all in with AA, no. All you can do is put it in with the best, if you did that you made the right decision. Just remeber when your all in with cards to come your leaving it up to the mercy of the game. And this game shows no mercy.
Posted 2 months ago # -
ONLINE POKER IS A SCAM .It dont matter what sight you play.What dallar amount.Online is a scam.Ther is no random in a program. and ther is no way to prove any thing.ITS A LERNING TOOL NO MORE NO LESS.For real money.It shoud be outlawed.Becuse you cant and wont be able to stop the CHEATING.Go play at a card house for a weak. You will see its not even the same game.
Posted 2 months ago # -
I completely disagree with the statement "Online poker is a scam". It sounds to me like the only people who make these types of statements are those that cannot seem to win. I just started playing again around 3 weeks ago after taking more than a year off. I invested $150 into my account, and currently have a credit of $600 on my account since I placed in the money on FullTilt's $750,000 guarentee after winning a satelite to get in.
So...I recommend that some of you take the time to read a few poker books and practice some patience. You'll find you can do wonders by trying to learn and evolve your game as opposed to simply giving up and calling it a scam. After all, in order for me to win some money, some of you have to lose it...
Posted 2 months ago # -
GOOD FOR YOU JOE.But i find wen I go back and play a sight that i havent played for some time.amazenly i hit eveything. for a weak our to. and by the way i have won money but the s.o..s the sights say cheaks in the mail.and you never get the money.sorry bro after i add everything up ITS THE SCAM OF THE CENTRY.
Posted 2 months ago # -
I have never had a problem withdrawing money from any site, including PartyPoker, Pokerstars, Doylesroom, and/or Fulltilt. I do not know why you have experienced issues, but perhaps there is more to the story than you are letting on. Each site has specific criteria required to withdraw, and while it may be harder to withdraw than it is to deposit, each of these sites has a reputation to uphold. They are not going to shaft players out of their money because they would then lose money by losing players.
I encourage you to contact the customer support at whatever sites you are having issues with to address the problems. If you cannot come to a resolution, you are more than welcome to contact their accrediting bodies and lodge a formal complaint.
Posted 2 months ago # -
THANK YOU mmatteo - "All you can do is put it in with the best, if you did that you made the right decision. Just remeber when your all in with cards to come your leaving it up to the mercy of the game. And this game shows no mercy." YOU SAID IT ALL!
I have also been playing online and winning and geting CHECKS from these sites since 2005. I won my 2006 WSOP seat on Paradise, before they bailed on US Players. I mainly play on FT and PS at this point because they are two of the sites who still deal with US Players since the UIGEA.
Bad beats are part of this game...that is all - luck IS involved...I do NOT beleive the sites are rigged because for all the suck-outs I have been VICITM of, I have benefitted the same number of times.
Posted 2 months ago # -
I have been playing online poker since April 2005. I have played on all the bigger sites and many smaller ones. The only site that after 100,000 hands I concluded may have a faulty RNG is FTP. J.Todd at APCW did an audit on FTP last year and suggested that FTP's RNG may be faulty. FTP does not have a 3rd party certificate of audit for its RNG on its website.
OTOH, PS has such a certificate. So does Absolute Poker and Cake Poker. I tend to play at sites that have such certificates linked on their websites and believe their RNG is random.
IMO, any US regulation of online poker sites should require them to annually procure audits of their RNG by a reputable 3rd party and link on their websites Certificates of Audit for their RNGs.
Posted 2 months ago # -
Hi Folks~
Its seems that there are some grievances as to some variance in the games in general online, so if you really think about the ratios of hands we are seeing online versus live play, there are more bad beats because we are seeing 3x the amount of hands online. This argument is old hat if you really think about it, and this does not help our ultimate goal of protecting online poker.
If wide variance is being found on a particular poker site's RNG program, then simply do not frequent that site. Plain and simple right? Short term loss for an exceptional player is an average factor as a poker player, while the long term always serves the interests of the strong player. Please review the hands that you have been playing, and remember to be honest with yourself. Have you made adjustments to your play? Are you pushing marginal edges in tournament structures? I am always critical of my plays, and try to do weekly, and monthly analysis of my poker journal.
Please, please remember that we are here as a cohesive unit developed to protect our natural rights as players; we can play when we want, where we want,and we must back those who believe this to be true in Congress. Those who do not can be voted down, so the PPA must remain strong for this to happen. You and I are the PPA so let's remain cohesive for the sake of the voice that has protected us thus far. Thanks so much!Posted 2 months ago # -
potpusher - FT does not record the hand histories of games that you are not sitting in.
Posted 2 months ago # -
Ive gambled off and online for years. What I do know is that online, I dont care what anyone says, if you are playing alone you can go for like ever and win nothing. I can name all sorts of occasions where Ive gambled for the first time ina program and won - I go back and I....yup lose.
If I were designing software I might be inclined to weight it so that it paid out first time KNOWING youd think oooh cool that was easy and entice you back, I am of course super cynical :D
Posted 2 months ago # -
Playing Poker online is not about the software giving you some money your first time to reel you in so you can lose more later. It is about playing fundamentally sound poker so that you can win consistantly. We all get bad beats, hell, we all give bad beats; but if you are playing fundamentally sound poker, you will consistantly overcome the statistical variance.
When I get busted out of a tourament, I know immediately if the play I made was appropriate or if I made a fundamentally incorrect move. I've learned to hone my game to adapt to what the table is willing to give me, and to be able to let go of hands in marginal situations. If you don't know anything about poker and jump onto a site for the first time, you are going to lose consistantly. You may win a couple dollars back here and there, but you will lose in the long run. It's the knowledge and experience under your belt that is going to overcome any amount of luck over the course of a session, not a computer program that some think is "predisposed" to give some people better cards than others.
Posted 2 months ago # -
You know, in my opinion, anyone that won't back down from the opinion that online poker is either a scam or is rigged apparently hasn't played a lot of live poker either. I haven't had anything happen for me or against me online that I haven't experienced sitting at a table. Example: online tonight (UltimateBet), I raised with KQs, got called with AJos, was all-in after they hit their J, and I ended up hitting the K on the river. Last night in a live game, I had someone all-in with AJs, they had KQs, they hit their Q on the flop, and I miraculously got runner-runner for a Q-high straight. Bottom line: it happens in the live game too! So, if you can't take getting sucked out on, find a new game.
As far as being a scam, I have withdrawn from FTP 3 times and received all 3 checks in a very reasonable amount of time. A friend of mine has won around $50,000 on FTP in the last 6 or so months. Some may argue that he was simply on a great run, but the fact of the matter is that he's a very solid and consistent player. He got sucked out on and sucked out on some folks along the way, just like everyone else. Only difference is, his skill paid off in the long haul.
Just remember everyone, we're here with the PPA to promote online poker, and get it 100% legalized and regulated. For those of you that have said online poker is a scam and needs to be outlawed, you're in the wrong place.
Posted 2 months ago # -
This is some good advice I got from a fellow member I just copied it but the thread was started by me sometime ago called Full Tilt Caters
Chukphx- It's a frequent complaint from people moving from live games to online play that suckouts happen more often or that their hands don't hold up as often. This phenomenon is an illusion caused by several factors. The first, as you pointed out, is that you will see more short-term variance (timewise, not per # of hands, which is a better indicator) because you are getting an exponentially higher amount of hands per hour. Additionally, the average internet game post-UIGEA is much, much more difficult than the average low-limit live game. This is mostly because playing online is such a pain in the ass at this point, it's difficult to get money in, it takes a long time to cash out, some sites have pulled out of the US market, and other startups don't even allow US players, so generally, if you are playing online today, you are pretty serious about playing some poker. Also, there is a psychological effect of internet play that you might not be considering. It's more difficult for many players to make a laydown online. Consider this hypothetical, you have an open-ended straight draw on the turn, a tight, solid player pots it, and it is your action, you are sure he has at least an overpair to your draw. In person everyone is watching your decision, you know that you will hear their comments after the hand, "he doesn't know how to calculate pot odds, he's a maniac, that was so obvious". You have to physically put your chips into the pot, and they feel really heavy when you are calling without odds and you know it. Also, you know that if you spike your 8-outer on the river after a bad call, the table will sympathize with your opponent, while if you miss, noone will care. It's almost a lose-lose situation psychologically. Conversely, if you are faced with the same situation online, your chipstack is just a number on a screen, it barely feels like money, you can't just take it to the cage in 3 minutes and get cash, the call is just a click away, you don't have to see or speak to anyone else during or after the hand, it's tougher to tell that your opponent is solid and tight, because you have no physical tells, and you probably haven't been watching his earlier hands because you are probably playing 7 other tables at the same time, as well as watching some tv and eating dinner, and if you fold, you won't get to see that last card, and you let some buffoon with a donkey avatar and a name like "bongrip6969" push you off of your hand with who knows what. I've played live and online for several years, and I have had the same feeling that you have on many different sites vs live casinos, and that's my best explanation for it thus far. I would recommend playing 2-3000 sngs on FTP the same way that you are used to playing and then check your stats on www.sharkscope.com. You will probably find long winning and losing streaks (in the last 2000 games i've had a 17 game losing streak while still maintaining a 23% ROI overall). If you still aren't where you want to be, perhaps try altering your bet-sizing, such as making the smallest bet that will cut off the pot-odds of your opponents when you have a made hand, if you think maybe they will call no matter what, you will still give yourself odds without getting hammered when they hit. Hope this helped to some degree. Good Luck at the tables, also, call your representative this morning :) Cheers.
Arkitekt83Posted 2 months ago #
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