Poker Players Alliance Forums » Ask Skallagrim

Colorado Law

(9 posts)
  • Started 2 years ago by Justin Barlow
  • Latest reply from Skallagrim

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  1. Justin Barlow
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    Any feedback you can give me on Colorado Law would be greatly appreciated. It looks like 18-10-102 defines gambling as follows:

    2) "Gambling" means risking any money, credit, deposit, or other thing of value for gain contingent in whole or in part upon lot, chance, the operation of a gambling device, or the happening or outcome of an event, including a sporting event, over which the person taking a risk has no control, but does not include:

    (a) Bona fide contests of skill, speed, strength, or endurance in which awards are made only to entrants or the owners of entries;

    (b) Bona fide business transactions which are valid under the law of contracts;

    (c) Other acts or transactions now or hereafter expressly authorized by law;

    (d) Any game, wager, or transaction which is incidental to a bona fide social relationship, is participated in by natural persons only, and in which no person is participating, directly or indirectly, in professional gambling; or

    (e) Repealed.

    (f) Any use of or transaction involving a crane game, as defined in section 12-47.1-103 (5.5), C.R.S.

    I am curious on the legal definition of "Bona Fide".

    Posted 2 years ago #
  2. Skallagrim
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    Ah Colorado... I have some relatives there and spent a fair bit of time in CO when I was younger; beautiful state.

    1) CO's definition of "gambling" is very problematic. The phrase "contingent in whole or in part upon ... chance" gives a Court an opportunity to not use the predominance test (more chance than not) and set a much higher standard that poker may not meet: certainly poker is in some part contingent on chance (what cards are dealt). In fact, the Colorado Supreme Court explicitly noted this in the case of Charnes v. Central City Opera House Ass'n, 773 P.2d 546 (Colo. 1989) where it said, basically, that although poker involves skill it also certainly is in some part contingent on chance and therefore gambling under this definition.

    2) An argument still exists for poker tournaments (though not for cash games) in CO because of the additional "contest of skill" exception. Here we do not need to worry about "contingent in part on chance." Many if not most 'contests of skill' are contingent in part on chance (even a foot race begins with a draw to see where you start, and that CAN make all the difference as to who wins the race). So for Poker tournaments, we can clearly raise the skill v. chance argument under a predominance test, and we at the PPA believe we can win under the predominance test (the test that asks "which is predominant in determining the outcome of the game: skill or chance").

    3) Other than that possible tournament exception, Poker is illegal in CO unless otherwise authorized by law (except that this still MAY not apply to internet poker, for a whole host of reasons detailed elsewhere in this forum: newness of internet and lack of mention in the law, location of the "game," Commerce Clause, etc...).

    4) There are real "otherwise authorized by law" exceptions though. First, the limited gaming areas like Cripple Creek where certain casino style gaming is allowed and regulated. The second real exception is the one you seem interested in "bone fide social relationship." I will quote the CO Court of Appeals because they do a good job or explaining it:

    "In People v. Wheatridge Poker Club, 194 Colo. 15, 569 P.2d 324 (1977), the court held that poker playing for money in a social club that derived its profits solely from yearly membership dues, a set "per chair" fee, and in which members were brought together through advertisements and promotions for the sole purpose of gambling was not incidental to a bona fide social relationship. In Houston v. Younghans, 196 Colo. 53, 580 P.2d 801 (1978), however, the court determined that poker playing for money among friends at the home of one of the players was incidental to a bona fide social relationship. More recently, in Charnes v. Central City Opera House Ass'n, 773 P.2d 546 (Colo. 1989), the court held that a fundraising event which featured gambling was incidental to a bona fide social relationship based on the fact that the event was limited to participants who, although not necessarily friends, were brought together for the common purpose of raising money and not solely for the purpose of gambling."

    So Poker with friends at home or in a social club (that does not rake or otherwise participate in the game) is clearly allowed.

    And while a charity tournament get together may be a "bone fide social relationship." that same damn case, Charnes v. Central City Opera House Ass'n, ruled that charity games run by a non-profit organization DO violate the gambling laws because the non-profit is engaging in "professional gambling" by making a profit off the game for the benefit of the non-profit charity. They also held that it would violate the liquor laws for a public bar to allow such an event on their premises. NO NORMAL CHARITY POKER IN CO, based on this opinion (there MAY be a way to structure an even that complies with this opinion, but it would have to be very creative). Charity gambling explicitly authorized in CO is limited to bingo and raffles (and requires a license).

    The words "bone fide" are simply Latin for "good faith."

    Hope that spurs on the decent folks in CO to get some changes to their law! Thanks for the question!

    Skallagrim

    Posted 2 years ago #
  3. Brent Hoag
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    The "social relationship" exclusion was enacted specifically for the country club and downtown social club games, which run to this day.

    Here is the 1993 Jane Norton legal opinion where she briefly examines poker as a skill game, however, concludes that the legislature can prohibit it.

    http://www.ago.state.co.us/agopinions/ago9305.cfm.html

    Here is the relevant Poker analysis:

    Poker.

    The game of poker is more problematic. The Supreme Courts of Montana and Oregon have decided that poker is a game of skill "with one player pitting his skills and talents against those of other players." Gallatin County v. D & R Music Vending, 208 Mont. 138, 141, 676 P.2d 779, 781 (1984); State v. Coats, 158 Or. 122, 74 P.2d 1102, 1106 (1938). But the Supreme Court of Ohio has held that it is a game of chance. Mills Jennings of Ohio, Inc. v. Department of Liquor Control, 70 Ohio St. 2d 95, 435 N.E. 2d 407, 409 (1982).

    The tension inherent in those decisions is reflected in some of our own supreme court's pronouncements on the subjects of lotteries and poker. In Bills v. People, supra, 113 Colo. at 332, 157 P.2d at 142, the court found that the essential evil of lotteries is the cultivation and stimulation of the spirit of gambling. Later, in In re Interrogatories of Governor, supra, 196 Colo at 357, 585 P.2d at 598, the court explained the intent of the framers of the Colorado Constitution to rid this state of that evil:

    The framers of our constitution prohibited lotteries in the broadest terms at the time Article XVIII Section 2 was enacted. In so doing, they were seeking to suppress and restrain the spirit of gambling which is cultivated and stimulated by schemes whereby one is induced to hazard his earnings with the hope of large winnings.

    These statements suggest that our constitutional prohibition against lotteries must be broadly interpreted -- perhaps broadly enough to include poker.

    However, our supreme court has also stated:
    There is no prohibition in our Constitution which prevents the legislature, or the people from authorizing certain forms of gambling. It unquestionably is true that all lotteries and gift enterprises are forms of gambling, but it does not follow that all gambling is a "lottery" or "gift enterprise" as these terms are defined in law. No one would contend that a game of poker, in which money is bet upon the relative value of the cards held by the participants constitutes a lottery, but it most certainly is a form of gambling.

    Ginsberg v. Centennial Turf Club, supra, 126 Colo. at 477, 251 P.2d at 929 (emphasis added). Although it is dicta in Ginsberg, the characterization that poker is not a lottery has recently been cited by the court in Charnes v. Central City Opera House, 773 P.2d 546, 551 (Colo. 1989).

    While the call is a close one, I conclude that poker, as narrowly defined in Section 12-47.1-103(22), is a game in which skill, not chance, dominates, and that legislative authorization of certain forms of poker would not be prohibited by Article XVIII Section 2. That is not to say that on a case-by-case basis some forms of poker could be construed as more akin to games of chance, or a "lottery." Of course the fact that poker is not constitutionally prohibited in all cases does not mean that it is legal; the prohibitions of Article 10 of Title 18 still apply. See generally People v. Wheatridge Poker Club, 194 Colo. 15, 569 P.2d 324 (1977). Poker remains illegal unless and until the Legislature acts to change the criminal statutes.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  4. Skallagrim
    State Director & Moderator
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    Nice addition Grasshopper, thank you!

    Skallagrim

    Posted 2 years ago #
  5. Justin Barlow
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    Thank you both!

    Posted 2 years ago #
  6. Cytoviper
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    Hello,

    I may need your help as an expert witness on this as I have pending legal case against a poker league that runs a regular tournament that was raided recently.

    Would you be interested in a vist to "our beautiful" state.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  7. Skallagrim
    State Director & Moderator
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    Cytoviper,

    Sorry for the delay, lots of things going on recently.

    If you are the same fellow who recently sent us an email, I have tried to respond to that today and you need to add me to the not blocked list of your spam filter.

    If you are not the same person, you can send me a PM through this site so we can exchange email addresses.

    Skallagrim

    Posted 2 years ago #
  8. Wade Patten
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    I felt this needed some expert advice. I own a Free Poker company in Colorado that asks nothing of its players, but to enjoy themselves.
    But I'm curious if it would be legal to allow players to play for free, just like I do now, but if they made a contribution they could receive extra points or chips. Is this still legal? The players can play for free if they want to, and win just like the person next to them that played for extra.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  9. Skallagrim
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    Except that the person who makes the "contribution" is getting something that improves their odds of winning. And if winning in your poker league gets the player a prize, even a small one, I have little doubt that the anti-poker zealots at the Colorado state police will decide this scheme is "gambling." Sorry.

    Remember the basic definition of gambling: consideration (a fee of some sort), chance, and prize. Your poker leagues are only "not gambling" if at least one of those three elements is COMPLETELY eliminated.

    Assuming, of course, that you dont want to be the next Kevin Raley, I can't really suggest you use this idea.

    Skallagrim

    Posted 1 year ago #

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